I can’t stop thinking about Julia Fox’s episode of EmRata – High Low. Emily Ratajkowski’s podcast is in its first few weeks, but it has already become the kind of show that shoots up your queue when a new episode drops. Two formats are used for episodes: Interview segments with Fox News and Fox. Call her Daddy’s EmRata addresses listener questions with Alex Cooper and solo. If you’ve yet to dive in, Ratajkowski’s talk with fellow “It” girl Julia Fox, star of Uncut Gems Kanye West press cycles and many others, this is the one to begin with. Ratajkowski talks with Fox about many things, including fashion week, bell hooks and writing memoirs. I was most shaken by their discussion on men. I haven’t been able to shake the melancholy it inspired in me, rattling around in my head for more than a week. And with Fox’s dating history making yet another weird moment in pop culture, the episode feels like a more vital listen than ever.
EmRata’s and Fox’s views on men make me happy to be ugly. Or at least to not have the kind of hotness that makes men treat them less than humans. I am proud to say that I have some extremely hot friends. And people are just fucking psycho to them: the projections, the demands for intimacy, the bullshit they endure — all of which is discussed at length by Ratajkowski and Fox. I don’t envy this lifestyle.
At one point, Fox says she thinks there are some men who are “amazing” and “wonderful,” she just has yet to meet one. The clip was clipped by TikTok and touched a chord with viewers. It’s a joke but one with real pain behind it. These women have had a lot of transactional relationships with men, which has made their hearts harden to an unsustainable level. Everything is extractive. Men try to take sex from these women as if it were a rare earth mineral and they’re the rainforest. The same goes for their relationships with their fathers. Fox took to Instagram to vent about her ex Peter Artemiev, calling him a feckless father. Ratajkowski has been leaving Sebastian Bear McClard as her husband. There’s no room for trust in their hearts; scar tissue takes up all available space.
Fox and EmRata have young boys themselves, and both talk about their fear that their little boys will become men who take away from them. That’s devastating. It doesn’t matter how much you do for your children; the world is going to continue its destructive work. That they came to create these kids with these men — men who have since betrayed their trust — makes it all the worse.
All of this makes it sound like the podcast would be a boring slog. We Need to Talk About Kevin–A sarcastic reflection on motherhood’s limits. That’s not fair. EmRata and Fox touch on many topics in the interview, and they’re both wryly funny with a declarative bravado. They Will escape New York’s educational pitfalls and help their kids touch grass; Fox’s memoir Will It is now available Will You will be amazed at its brilliance. EmRata’s podcast in general is very good, and her chat with real-life bestie Ziwe is another must listen. After listening to the Fox episode, what has stayed with me for many days is the pain of patriarchy and the feeling of brittleness that these supermodels have left behind. They’re so tired of protecting themselves. They will be greeted by strangers more often the more they become famous. I have teared up recapping EmRata’s podcast at brunch, and for that I thank her and Julia Fox.