On Record PR has Jennifer Simpson Carr and Lori Mihalich Levin (CEO of Mindful Return) discussing how to navigate the return-to-work transition after parental leave.
Lori Mihalich Levin, JD, believes that working parents should be empowered. Mindful Return is her company’s founder and CEO. She is also the author of Back to Work After Baby: How to Plan, Navigate, and Manage a Mindful Return From Maternity Leave. She is a private-practice health care lawyer and mother to two adorable red-headed sons, aged 9 and 11. Her thought leadership was featured in publications such as Forbes, The Washington Post Parenting, New York Times Parenting and Thrive Global.
Jennifer Simpson Carr Lori, it’s great to have you on the show. Lori, I shared with you that I had my beautiful child while I was working in-house for a midsize law firm’s business development department. It is an honor to talk to you about such a vital topic. I am sure there are many things that you’re going to share with me that I wish I had known then and that I hope we can help new parents now.
Tell us about yourself as a mom, lawyer, and CEO. How did this amazing work begin?
I love to say I have three hats. Although we all wear 742 hats each day, there are only three main ones that I use. One is the mom of these nine- and eleven-year-old boys, who are very close in age to your daughter. My oldest just started middle school, so that’s been its own adventure. That’s hat number one. Hat number two is that I’m the CEO and founder of Mindful Return, and I’ll tell you in a minute how I came to do that role. Hat number three is that I’m a Medicare regulatory lawyer/nerd in Washington, D.C. who has a niche that’s a centimeter wide and a million miles deep in Medicare reimbursement land. Right now, I do that as my “side gig.” I have my own firm. I quit Big Law last year and now have my own company where I do a little bit of practice.
Eight years ago, shortly after my second son was born, I realized I was in a difficult place. After having one child, I returned to full-time work and found it difficult. Two years later, I had another baby and then went off the rails. Undiagnosed postpartum anxiety was what I believe I suffered from. We like to say that one plus 1 felt like 85 at that time. Things were starting to fall apart. I searched for resources that could help as a working parent.
Two categories were found. I found snarky advice like, “Don’t put a picture of your family on your desk, or people won’t take you seriously.” I found advice along the lines of, “You’re going to leak on your shirt if you’re pumping at work, so maybe you just shouldn’t do that.” That was not helpful. There was also a lot of advice about baby. This is great and I need all the help I can get on how to make baby food, how to massage babies, and other useful information. There wasn’t anything about my own personal and professional identity transition that I was going through to working parenthood and how to navigate that transition. I was determined to create the things I wished existed for myself.
Jennifer Simpson Carr That’s wonderful. Something that is on your website really resonated with me, and it’s the comment that says, “Imagine feeling confident about your decisions, both as a parent and a professional.” I think that’s something that so many parents, including me, struggled with coming back to work and still struggle with today.
What are the biggest challenges that new parents face when they return to work after parental leave?
You hit on the first one, which is just that confidence and the ability to feel as though you’re doing the right thing on a daily basis, whatever the right thing is for you. Often, we feel like we’re meant to be parenting without respect to the fact that we have a job, and working at a job without respect to the fact that we’re parenting. You know the big G word. Guilt – “I’m walking out of the office at the end of the day or shutting down because I need to go get my child because childcare closes.” There was a $10-a-minute penalty at my daycare, and we had to get there.
It was difficult for me to accept the fact that my son wouldn’t take a bottle. The story I told myself was, if I went back to work, then I’d be killing him because he would die because he couldn’t eat, because he couldn’t take a bottle. That was a struggle that I had to overcome. My breast milk turned sour due to excess lipase. I had to scald it. This was all I knew as a working parent.
There’s the sleep deprivation. You’re not sleeping for anymore than potentially three consecutive hours a night, and that can really play with your mind. We know of the well-known motherhood biases in the workplace. These are assumptions that people make about you that are not true.
There’s a lot packed into that transition period. The transition to work after parental leave does not have to be a stressful event. It is not something you can do in one day. It’s not something that can be done in a matter of days. It’s probably a one-year process, and I think both employers and individuals would do well to keep that in mind and remember that it’s not a once-and-done sort of thing.
What can employers do to support employees during this time of transition?
Employers have many options. Some are expensive and some are free. I think the ones that don’t are mindset shifts on how we talk about the transition – putting programs in place that encourage managers to have structured conversations about how they’re going to phase employees out of work and then how they’re going to phase back in. Mentoring programs could be implemented. Having the long view and saying, “I’m invested in this person for the long run. I know that there’s going to be a shift in how they’re working, and I’m committed to their career success.” Having that sort of attitude shift can really help.
Formal policies are also available. Paid parental leaves are important. Policies that allow for both phased-out or phased-in return are important. This issue is just as important as how your leadership communicates about it. Are they encouraging people to take their full leave, whether they’re a new mom or a new dad? Do they model this for their employees? It is important to use the right language when talking about leave.
Employers have many options to help you, but your first step should be to talk to your parents. Find out how they felt about their time off. Check out their experiences upon returning. What are the gaps? Are the policies well-communicated? What support are they entitled to? What happened? Get their pulse. I think that is a wonderful first step if you’re wondering what your employee population needs.
Jennifer Simpson Carr We advise clients on how to communicate both internally and externally. In every situation, it is crucial to have clear and transparent communication. It is crucial to communicate clearly with parents and listen to their needs. I just had a wonderful interview with Katharine Manning, and her sentiment was, “Don’t assume that you know what people need. Have those conversations and listen, and then put processes and policies in place that actually support the people who they are in place for.”
Listen to Episode 110: Responding to Trauma at Workplace with Katharine Maning, President of Blackbird DC
Lori Mihalich-Levin: I think that there’s a pandemic of making assumptions. For example, some people might assume that a new mother won’t be as committed, can’t take on the next big project, and doesn’t want to travel. When you make those assumptions, even if you think you’re making them benevolently, you have just taken the power of a woman to define her own career steps out of her own hands.
What are the unique effects of Covid on parents who have just become parents?
Being a new parent can be extremely challenging. Covid was a very difficult time for new parents. I can’t really imagine having gone through it, because I didn’t have a child during that time. There were pros and cons. One of the benefits was the ability to spend more quality time with baby, and not send them into childcare. New mothers also had the option to continue to breastfeed their babies and not need to pump as often.
One of the biggest downsides to having a baby is isolation and inability to meet other parents. If one is working from home and the baby is in another room, guilt can set in. I’m sure that many noise-canceling headphones were purchased during the pandemic.
Jennifer Simpson Carr There are some obvious benefits to parents being able to pump more and have more time. Many people are returning to work in a mix of a full-time or part-time capacity.
Why is it important that employers encourage dads and moms to use the parental leave time they have?
I believe parental leave should be de-gendered. If it is not, there will be a stigma against new moms. People in the hiring process will ask, “Is she going to go out on leave?” If anyone can go out on leave, it removes that question.
How can you encourage mothers and fathers to take their time? I think an important shift in language that one can use as a manager is to say to any man who learns that he’s going to become a father, “When are you going to take your parental leave?” Not, “Are you going to take any time off?” Say, “When are you going to go out? When’s the start date? When’s the end date? Let’s figure out how to put that into the schedule.” At some point, you’re going to want to encourage everybody to be taking that leave.
There is great data that shows that women’s careers do better the more parental leave a father takes. If we’re going to narrow the gender pay gap and address the problems in the leaky women’s leadership pipeline, we need to recognize caregivers as caregivers, no matter their gender.
Jennifer Simpson Carr It is a wonderful idea for parents to tag-team their parental leave, so that they both can be supported in their careers. This allows them to spend time together with their child, and not have to overlap.
As many people do, you talk about loving your family and your work. What strategies can you use to deal with this inner conflict?
I’ve learned this wonderful phrase and philosophy from Dr. Allison Behrle at Brown University, who has a book coming out in November. I just started digging into a pre-reader version. It is all about the concept of work/life enrichment and the idea that although we tend to look at work and “life” as these opposing poles that are pulling at each other, competing, and vying for one another’s attention, in reality, work benefits from life and life benefits from work. When I can keep that in mind, when I can remember to tell myself that I am a better mom because I am working and engaged in these things that keep me interested and active and feel like I’m making a contribution to the world, I parent better. Mindful Return makes me a better CEO because I take the time to make dinner every day, wash my kids and then go to bed. I can let go of work and let my brain recharge, and the creativity in me allows others to benefit from each other. When I can remember that, I feel like I’m in a better place.
I want to share a concept that a leader coach has taught me about guilt. If you can reframe the phrase “I feel guilty because” into “I made this decision because,” it can really help you to ground yourself in your own values and judgment and say, “I did make this decision for a good reason, and therefore I’m not going to dwell on the other things that I could be doing right now.” Releasing others’ expectations of me has been a decade-long journey, but it is one that I think has benefited my emotional state amazingly.
Please tell us more about Mindful Return and the services it offers new parents as well as employers.
Our core programs address the transition to work after parental leaves. We have a program for new moms and new dads, and it’s a four-week, cohort-based online program that people can join from anywhere that helps them make the transition back to work after leave in a calmer, more empowered way.
It’s four weeks, four themes:
- The first week is all about a Be mindful when returning to work. This is how you can get your head in better places.
- It’s all about the second week The logistics of returning, everything from navigating the childcare transition to figuring out your schedule to how you’re going to nourish and feed your baby.
- It’s the third week. Leadership in the space for return And focusing on the skills that we have acquired for parenthood and that can be used in our careers.
- The fourth week is here Building and remaining in communities, so you don’t isolate yourself and wind up crying on the kitchen floor like I did for way too long.
We work currently with 93 different employers that offer the program as a parental leave benefit, and it’s a way to make sure that your employee is feeling supported in the transition.
We have had over 2,000 people go through the program at this point, and our alums started saying to us, “I’m back from leave and now I have a toddler. Now I have a school-age kid and things are still hard.” We developed something that we call the Mindful Return 201 program for experienced parents. We work together on time management, self care, community connection, career advancement, and self-care. We’ve expanded and grown in certain ways. We now have international offerings. We have chapters in the UK and South Africa.
Jennifer Simpson Carr All of these are valuable resources for families. It can be difficult to transition back to work. It is a daunting task. I’m glad that they’re there, because I also found similar feedback when I was searching for how to transition to what you described earlier in the conversation. This is a great resource for lawyers who work long hours and have demanding schedules.
Where can our listeners get in touch with you if they’d like to learn more?
Our website is www.mindfulreturn.com. If you would like to connect with me, please feel free to do so and tell me that this podcast was listened to. A Tuesday Tip for Working Parent is available on Instagram (@mindfulreturn) and LinkedIn. We offer a free resource called 99 Questions to ask Yourself Before, During and After Parental leave. There’s also a page on our website specifically for employers.
My book, Back to Work After Baby, can be found on Amazon as well as all other places that one would expect to find books. You can listen to my podcast, Parents at Work. It is a podcast I co-host with my husband. We have a lot of fun representing both mom and dad parenthood.
Learn More & Connect
Lori Mihalich-Levin
Mindful Return: Learn More
Book: Return to Work After Baby: How To Plan and Navigate A Mindful Return From Maternity Leave
Podcast: Parents at Work Podcast
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mindful-return/
Instagram: @mindfulreturn
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